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Made a batch of cider with granny smith apples 13%brix. Juiced my self. used half or maybe less of Kmeta than what is suggested on the packet

July 3: saf-ale US05 yeast. Starter was 2L apple juice with 1 packet left to ferment for 24 - 48 hours. took a couple of days to start fermenting. Apple juice was very appley and nice.

July 8: I wanted to try adding pectic enzyme at the start of fermenting.

July 10: Started tasting and smelling like vomit and it lost the strong apple smells and tastes. Had milky haze that would stick to the side of drinking glass.

22 July: vomit smell/taste was gone and juice sweet but insipid 7%brix

I want to re-use the yeast but am concerned the yeast might be infected with something. Perhaps cider sickness? seems strange to get infected while fermenting though. Is this to be expected from safale US05(first time using it) when used with cider,or could it be the pectic enzyme addition, while fermenting giving off the vomit smell?

edit: want to use the yeast for beer.

  • 1
    Dry yeast is pretty cheap. If there's any doubt, don't re-use it. – Jeff Roe Aug 22 '17 at 14:55
  • What do you think reusing this yeast for making beer will add to your beer? Are you looking for a particular flavour - like a saison? – GrainMother Aug 23 '17 at 6:02
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Vomit taste is butyric acid,

produced by anaerobic bacteria such as Clostridium butyricum, C. kluyveri, and Megasphaera spp 1 during glucose fermentation

I would not recommend re-using the yeast. I would also not recommend drinking any of the cider unless you are certain the alcohol content is at least 2% ABV as there may be other more harmful bacteria present, like e. coli or clostridium botulinum.

If something smells awful (where awful is like rancid/vomit/fecal aromas), it's really time to toss the batch. If the alcohol content is low, it could cause food poisoning.

  • ABV is at about 6% but doesnt have much, if any, flavour so probably wont be drinking it. – Thomas Aug 24 '17 at 6:35
  • This fits mostly with what I've experienced; growth in co2 conditions, and dying off as the alcohol increased/yeast growth. Although the cider has a ph of around 3.8 which is too low for the strains mention except maybe Megasphaera spp. Growth also stops at a pH of 4.0 or less – Thomas Aug 24 '17 at 7:07
  • I've had butyric acid in sours, which range from 3.3-4.0 pH. – Wyrmwood Aug 24 '17 at 16:26
  • aa i see. The tank of cider actually smells of pineapple. does that mean that the butyric acid has been converted? – Thomas Aug 30 '17 at 7:17
  • @Thomas Yeast can clean up off flavors, so plausibly.. – Wyrmwood Sep 5 '17 at 19:10
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Yes, but expect the same results.

Sounds like a wild yeast that doesn't flocculate and stays in suspension.

If it tastes good then use it.

  • I didn't mention I wanted to reuse it for beer. Definitely wouldn't use again for cider. I am curious to see what it would do to beer though. – Thomas Aug 22 '17 at 6:36
  • @Thomas if it tastes good I may decent make a cloudy ipa. But may come out underattenuated (sweet) just like the cider – Evil Zymurgist Aug 23 '17 at 17:04
  • I let it continue fermenting and it got to about 4% sugar and was barely dropping so i stopped the fermenting because it already tasted very dry with not much flavour. I don't think ill be using it haha – Thomas Aug 24 '17 at 6:32
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IMHO it is not worth trying to reuse a Saf05 yeast that has been fermenting in questionable circumstances. The yeast is too cheap to buy to risk an infection or even a failure. More over it is not really a good yeast to use for cider - although I am sure it will cause fermentation in most situations. traditional farmyard Apple cider is usually made with the wild yeast that lives on the apple skins and enters the juice while crushing.

I would also question why Potassium metabisulphite needs to be initially added to the brew. If infection is a real worry then pasteurise (or even boil) the apple juice before cooling and pitching a commercial yeast. Many commercial ciders are made with pasteurised apple juice and quite often with glucose syrup. Making cider with pasteurised juice has been covered in this question

Fermenting apple juice often has a malodorous or slightly sulphurous aroma. In most circumstances it will fade over time while ageing/conditioning. Ciders that are obviously infected with a very sour taste can often be opened to the air to make apple vinegar.

Generally speaking cider is not a quick drink to make. Good cider ferments for more than a month and is then bottled and aged for something like one year. Cider less than a year old often tastes "less than optimal" and many would say it is not fit to drink before that time.

  • I've used safale04 before and I liked the results. I've never used Safale05 before but I read it was ok for cider. Psulphite was used to kill or inhibit yeast and bacteria. I think that pasteurising may have an effect on the flavour and boiling definitely does but outside the scope of the question – Thomas Aug 22 '17 at 6:08
  • I would never heat or boil juice going into cider. Boiled apple juice tastes and smells like cooked apple or apple sauce , which is actually what it is at that point. Totally inappropriate in cider. – Mumble Aug 22 '17 at 8:55
  • commercial apple juice is often pasteurised (eg for tetrapack cartons). It tastes like apple juice (apparently...). Boiling for a long time (eg to reduce volume) is not recommended but flash heating of juice to 100C does not IMHO change the flavour of the final product to any degree.. – barking.pete Aug 22 '17 at 13:40
  • I have to disagree a lot on this. I find there's a pretty dramatic flavor and aroma difference between the fresh stuff and the tetrapack cartons, even if it's only gently pasteurized in the low 70s, let alone bringing it to a boil. The aromas gets muted, acidity disappears and you get a slight cooked apple twang even there. – Mumble Aug 22 '17 at 14:45
  • @Mumble: is the above comment comparing the apple juice or the cider produced from it? – barking.pete Aug 23 '17 at 7:50

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