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I have this All-Grain recipe that I'm converting to Extract. Do you basically just increase the hops until the IBUs match the original measurement? I've gotten the OG fairly close and the SRM is a little darker, which I'm expecting from extract. I increased the boil hops and the IBU is only off by 8. Anyone have any suggestions?

Here is the original recipe:

Boil Size: 7.11
Boil Time: 60 min
Taste Rating(out of 50): 42.0
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00
Mash Temperature: 150 F
Mash Time: 60 Minutes

Efficency was calculated @ 70% Brewhouse
Est Original Gravity: 1.098 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.021
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 10.05 %
Bitterness: 138.2 IBU
Calories: 458 cal/pint
Est Color: 8.8 SRM

14.50 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 70.73 %
3.00 lb Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 14.63 %
1.00 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 4.88 %
0.50 lb Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 2.44 %
0.50 lb Honey Malt (25.0 SRM) Grain 2.44 %

1.25 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [15.20 %] (60 min) (First Wort Hop) Hops 45.3IBU
1.00 oz Simcoe [12.70 %] (60 min) Hops 27.5 IBU
1.00 oz Chinook [12.40 %] (45 min) Hops 24.7 IBU
1.00 oz Centennial [11.50 %] (30 min) Hops 19.1 IBU
1.00 oz Citra [11.00 %] (15 min) Hops 11.8 IBU
1.00 oz Amarillo Gold [9.40 %] (10 min) Hops 7.4 IBU
2.00 oz Amarillo Gold [9.40 %] (0 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops
2.00 oz Simcoe [12.70 %] (0 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops
3.00 oz Simcoe [12.70 %] (Dry Hop 7 days) Hops 
1.00 tab Whirlfloc (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
1.10 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
1.40 lb Honey (0.0 SRM) Sugar 4.88% (Boil 10.0 min)

And here is my converted recipe for extract:

Est Original Gravity: 1.089 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.019
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 9.4 %
Bitterness: 130.3 IBU
Est Color: 9.6 SRM

11 lbs Briess Golden Light Liquid Extract
3 lbs Weyermann Vienna Malts
1 lb Briess 2 Row Caramel 20L Malt
.5 lb Briess Organic Cara-Pils
.5 lb Gambrinus Honey Malt

2 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [15.20 %] (60 min) (First Wort Hop) Hops
2 oz Simcoe [12.70 %] (60 min) Hops
1.5 oz Chinook [12.40 %] (45 min) Hops 
1.5 oz Centennial [11.50 %] (30 min) Hops 
1.5 oz Citra [11.00 %] (15 min) Hops 
1.5 oz Amarillo Gold [9.40 %] (10 min) Hops 
2.00 oz Amarillo Gold [9.40 %] (0 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops 
2.00 oz Simcoe [12.70 %] (0 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops 
3.00 oz Simcoe [12.70 %] (Dry Hop 12 days) Hops 
1 oz Amarillo Gold [9.40 %] (Dry Hop 12 days) Hops 
1.40 lb Honey (0.0 SRM) Sugar 4.88% (Boil 10.0 min)
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You might want to fix the formatting of your ingredients here. I had a hard time trying to scan the list and sorta gave up. –  Graham Apr 4 '12 at 12:33
    
Sorry about that, its fixed now –  HopHead73 Apr 4 '12 at 15:17
    
I don't see how the IBUs can come out less - you have more bittering hops in the second recipe, e.g. the extra 0.75oz tomahawk and 1oz more of simcoe. a typo somewhere perhaps? also are you boiling the extract for the full 60 mins? –  mdma Apr 4 '12 at 17:25
    
if you plug both the all-grain and extract recipes into Beersmith with the exact same hop schedule, the extract has a lower IBU. Which is common for extract brewing because you get less hop utilization. I increased the hops in the extract version in Beersmith until it came out to about the same as the all-grain recipe. And yes I boil my extract for 60mins –  HopHead73 Apr 4 '12 at 17:36
    
here are two articles that say you must increase hops for extract from all-grain: beersmith.com/blog/2008/06/03/… davikbrewing.com/blog/brewing_101/… –  HopHead73 Apr 4 '12 at 17:43
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1 Answer 1

up vote 2 down vote accepted

It's not the extract specifically that's the problem but the lower utilization resulting from the higher gravity of a partial boil. If you're not doing a partial boil, then no need to scale. But if you are, then your main recourse is to scale the bittering hops to match the target IBUs, as you've done.

Scaling the FWH addition is interesting, since as well as increased bitterness, you get some aroma contribution, but the difference if any will be subtle. More pertinent, how long will you be steeping the FW hops. FWH are typically steeped for 60-90 mins or more in a all grain brew, or longer - however long it takes to drain the mash, perform the sparge and then bring to a boil. It's this long exposure to warm wort that gives the higher utilization for FWH - sources cite a 10 percent increase. When doing a short steep, such as the time it takes to boil the water for the partial boil, I wouldn't count too much on the additional utilization from FWH and simply register these as regular boil hops unless you plan to steep them for the time indicated.

But I should say that this just splitting hairs and mostly academic - in practice a 5 IBU difference is not so apparent, imperceptible to some, and even more so with the high hopping rates here.

share|improve this answer
    
Thanks for the tips! I was going to steep the FWH for about 30mins, that's one reason why I figured I should bump them up a bit. I know you said to bump the bittering hops, which would be my simcoe addition at 60mins, but do you think it would be pertinent to also raise the 45, 30 & 15min additions as I did above or do you think I should leave those at the original amounts? –  HopHead73 Apr 5 '12 at 22:44
    
You're welcome. I would also bump the 45 min. I was going to write that you probably should bump each in proportion to how much bitterness they contribute as well as the actual quantity of bitterness, not just a proportional scaling across the whole hops. But this can get complicated, and I don't really see a benefit. Hops are not the exact science that these precise figures would have is believe! –  mdma Apr 5 '12 at 22:51
    
so someone suggested to me to start doing late malt extract additions instead of all of it at once before the boil. But when I put that into Beersmith it jumps the IBU to 291. Which doesn't seem right at all. Does a late addition effect the IBUs that much? –  HopHead73 Apr 5 '12 at 23:28
    
possibly. utilization is a function of time and wort gravity. but note that boiling hops in water alone extracts polyphenols, making the beer astringent. I used to do full boils with extract, and didn't notice the extract twang, but if that's a concern, consider adding half the extract for the total boil duration, and the remainder for the last 15 mins. –  mdma Apr 6 '12 at 9:09
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